Announcement (Concerning Dolls)

Announcement [New Policy]:

The Administrators and Moderators of FF.net would like to discuss a new policy effective today (Tuesday July 8th, 2008) concerning the posting of dolls which are being utilized in a sexual manner. We believe that such behavior could be the gateway to illegal deviant sexual postings and the breeding ground for pedophiles. As such, a joint decision has been made among the staff here at facialforum.net to disallow any post which involves dolls including, but not limited to: Barbie, Bratz and other such dolls.

The decision has been made and we hope that it doesn't impair or affect any of your views of facialforum.net. Certainly, there are many other places you can share and do things like this. We feel that for the safety of our users and the security of our forum that it is best to disallow any such postings here. Please reference The Rules (Rule #16) for more information.

As of this stage, the rule applies to and prevents postings which include figurines/dolls which are geared and marketed for children. Which aren't sexual in nature. As far as I know, Dolls bought and marketed as sexual devices and other items which were marketed to an adult audience are okay.

Please be advised that this announcement is not insinuating anything for the current posters of this material. But that, it could potentially attract the wrong group of people in to our forums. Since this type of thing does take place in the free section it could easily be found by others through Google.

Me either! To be honest I don't care very much about the dolls, although I find it funny to see them covered with cum, but I don't know where in the world you took that idea. To like or deslike pedophilia has nothing to do with dolls! My god! I wouldn't have any problem to cum on a doll but I would never molest a child or distribute/post/divulgate material related with pedophilia. Man, not a happy idea! :confused:

Sorry. The consensus is that it may lead to this type of discussion and in no way reflects that the current postings are by people who are like the ones we're trying to prevent from cropping up. We just feel like it could be a potential gateway for that type of material and it's best to nip it in the bud well before it ever gets to that stage.

This isn't to say that if you cum on a doll, you're a pervert. But, since some of the materials/dolls used are toys and primarily played with by children we feel like that aspect of the whole niche could draw in the wrong crowd. It's the same idea behind teenage modeling. It has its place in society, but it can and will attract the wrong group of people. This was a joint decision that the entire moderator team has made that helps protect the longevity of our forum and prevents future problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac23

...dolls as props leads to pedophilia? I would like to see it - perhaps a link or another document/research project that supports your fear. I resent the implication that one leads to the other. Unless you can substantiate your fears I must conclude that your moderators have not been forthright with answers they have given me in the past.
If you did not want the doll community - which now is obvious - why did you take so long to make this decision? I respect you decision - just don't lay that lame 'pedophilia' excuse as a reason to prohibit posting of those images. I prefer the more direct approach as stated in your new rule.
Do you know of research that suggests a 'link' between the two behaviors? Again - I'd like to see it.;)
Mac

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Bottom line is we have had complaints and we've got to cover our arse.

Mac, I know you understand. Your stuff in my opinion was OK but we had posts after that were questionable and led to complaints.

Complaints lead to problems and none of us needs that.

Hope you all continue to enjoy the forum. All the staff work real hard (for nothing) to keep this place alive.

Personal Thanks to the staff and all the members.

Do I need to change my avatar?

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Originally Posted by cognito

Do I need to change my avatar?

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I wouldn't think so Cognito. That could have easily been bought as a present for you, by your boyfriend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by casvdry

Announcement [New Policy]:

The Administrators and Moderators of FF.net would like to discuss a new policy effective today (Tuesday July 8th, 2008)[/color]

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Is this a free discussion or is the matter already decided? :confused:

It's decided. If you read further into the original post you will see that it says they aren't allowed. There is also a link to the rule in the rules section, specifically #16

The Shape

Ok thanks for clearing that up, I will of course respect the mods and admins decisions :) **licks boots** he he :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beecus

Is this a free discussion or is the matter already decided? :confused:

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Sure we can discuss the decision. That's the point! I don't want it to feel like some dictatorship style decision as we all feel it's in our best interest. But, I am sure any of the Moderator team (including myself) wouldn't mind hearing our users feedback on the decision. Because you guys make the forum work.

Well, if it's decided than it's decided! I understand that you are worried about the integrity of the forum but I still can't see what this new rule can change. You say that that material can atract people who are into pedophilie but I don't believe so but even if it does what's the problem? Who knows there are already some here and we never noticed. I don't believe they would post that kind of stuff here so they are no harm. But that's ok for me, I don't agree but I can live with that. No heart feelings with you guys and I hope this forum lasts for a long time the way it is.
Cheers! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by umbersun

Well, if it's decided than it's decided! I understand that you are worried about the integrity of the forum but I still can't see what this new rule can change. You say that that material can atract people who are into pedophilie but I don't believe so but even if it does what's the problem? Who knows there are already some here and we never noticed. I don't believe they would post that kind of stuff here so they are no harm. But that's ok for me, I don't agree but I can live with that. No heart feelings with you guys and I hope this forum lasts for a long time the way it is.
Cheers! ;)

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Thanks for the polite words. It's indeed a tough decision and honestly it could go either way based on how you perceive it. It's hard to find that line where you keep things fair and uncensored and also safe. In this instance the safest bet was for the removal of such content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cognito

Do I need to change my avatar?

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I just love you cognito me old mucker!

I don't get off on dolls, so I couldn't care less about this matter. But why are these threads still active after the imposition of Rule 16?
http://www.facialforum.net/showthread.php?t=13483

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goboy

I don't get off on dolls, so I couldn't care less about this matter. But why are these threads still active after the imposition of Rule 16?
http://www.facialforum.net/showthread.php?t=13483

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I hate to seem confusing, but what the rule applies to is a doll/toy which was marketed, produced and aimed towards children, not adults. Those figurines feature nudity as well as being geared for an older audience. I do not believe they fall under the rule.

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Originally Posted by Mac23

Moderators it looks like you have a dillemma. Are they marketed exclusively to adults?

Please review the dolls the following thread links to. I won't continue to put links on the forum. I am only doing this to show a couple of Barbies that are not aimed at children at all. Please convince me that the 'target market' for these dolls that Mattell has in mind is pre-pubescent, pubescent, or teenage girls. My bet is that these are aimed at adults.

Here are those links. In the 'spirit' of not being a "dictatorship" please allow these links to be viewed.

http://barbie.everythinggirl.com/cat...bcat_id=210015

http://barbie.everythinggirl.com/cat...bcat_id=210015

Your job as moderators does involve censorship. Be careful of what parameters you choose. I hope you leave the other thread up! however I will always view that choice as inappropriate and hypocritical if in fact you choose to leave it. You are setting a precarious precedent. I wish you wisdom in that process.

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Please don't make this anymore confusing than it has to be. Barbies were originally created and manufactured for children. Bratz, surprisingly enough, were created and aimed at becoming Barbies competition. Sure, you have those adults out there who will collect items such as Barbies for their value or as a hobby.

The issue @ hand is that Barbies, as well as Bratz are predominantly a childs toy. I have stated many times why the rule was put in place. I will check the links you've posted and take everything into consideration. Either way, decisions are made based on the views of every moderator, so my drawn conclusions and decisions doesn't reflect what may actually happen. We censor the same things that would likewise be censored by any government up to and including illegal activity and while that isn't the case here, the decision is to stop something from ever manifesting itself.

EDIT: I reviewed the links. The same reason why Barbies such as this are created is the same idea behind play stoves and playing dress up. To allow the child to envision themselves as an older person or so as to act grown up. Toys/Dolls are not marketed nor designed for grown ups. Which doesn't mean adults cannot collect them, but they certainly aren't designed for adults to play with. That is not to say that anyone acting out a fantasy with dolls or figures is different. Of course not, it's a niche/fetish, everyone has them. Some suit us better than others, but the point in this decision was to shield the forum from anything that could potentially arise from linking a sexual act with a childs toy especially those who may join in on the forum who unlike you, take the idea a little further and converse with others in distributing and discussing illegal activity and using ff.net as their underground.

It was mainly these few things that the decision was based upon.

Right peeps, lets put this whole discussion into perspective.

The catalyst for the recent decision was a post that was made in the free section (which has since been removed) of some guy cuming over a child's doll. You know the ones...the 'life-like' sized dolls which cry if not picked up and their eyes shut when laid down.....

Because of their very close resemblence to ACTUAL children, in both size & context etc, we felt that that kind of post was totally inappropriate & not welcome here at all.

The same therefore has to apply total to ALL & ANY posts which portray 'cum on' commercial products that are desgined, manufactured & sold solely for the use of children. We can not be caught cold footed so to speak on this issues, hence why this decision has been taken, which we fully appreciate will not be liked by all.

We all have the right to question & debate what happens here, hell it one of the most important things that we do, as a community of like minded fiends.

There are some issues however that we have to take a stand on. Please therefore consider this to be one of those issues.

Respects peeps....:cool:

Valenuk1
Senior Moderator

Well, I never had the chance to post on this forum but I will now.
I'll start by saying that nobody banned S&M because it leads to violence as far as I know...
So I have to disagree with your decision. There are many shades of gray to this ban such as the "age" of the doll involved, but I think you are banning the whole "grayscale" for the "very dark" stuff! You took it upon yourself to catalog everything concerning dolls as "dangerous" so people might consider taking the same short-minded approach and call your decision bullshit.
I'm on the fringe of saying that even if I totally agree with the deletion of the child-doll thread, but instead I'll just kindly ask you to delete my account/ban it/whatever, I'll try and find other sources for my fetish...

True Stinky, but the same thing can be said about many things. Like how we aren't banning guns because people kill with them. They do have there legitimate uses, and I know there were some people who were really into this fetish that we have here. The problem is that, if the right person has a misconception about what that fetish is about or misinterprets what it's really about and stood for (A Fetish) then we could all presumably suffer. The forum cannot afford for that gun to go off even once.

While there are a lot of dynamics to the issue, with many more positives to the fetish than real negatives, we cannot afford for the one or two negatives to be used or viewed in the wrong light.

I'd like to highlight the most important part of this entire thread, which will hopefully bring some understanding to more people:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valenuk1

The catalyst for the recent decision was a post that was made in the free section (which has since been removed) of some guy cuming over a child's doll. You know the ones...the 'life-like' sized dolls which cry if not picked up and their eyes shut when laid down.....
Because of their very close resemblence to ACTUAL children, in both size & context etc, we felt that that kind of post was totally inappropriate & not welcome here at all.

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The idea was not to "crack down" on anyone, or that the mods here enjoy creating and enforcing more rules. It is a pre-emptive ass-covering on an issue we suddenly realized could become a serious problem.

The simple fact is this: child porn is wrong, fucked-up, and illegal. The kind of thing even most criminals find utterly reprehensible.

A lifelike child doll being used for a sexual act is so close in representation to the above that we found it completely disturbing. After all, if it can be argued that cumming on (or just to) images of a woman is simply a substitution for the women herself (or a similar woman)...then the same goes for images of children. Whatever form they take. And with children, this is not a tolerable option.

The decision to ban all sexualized doll imagery may seem like stretching it to some people, but it is simply to make life easier for all concerned. Admittedly other dolls become more of a grey area, but we need to make the rule simple to follow and enforce.

Sorry this has upset some members, but in actuality this sort of content is not the real focus of the forum. For live real women of legal age getting cum facials, this is still one of the best places on the net. Let's get back to that and try to put this behind us. Thanks. :)

Its a good call... I can see both sides of the issue but its better too err on the side of caution. I think we can all still find other kinks to enjoy on this forum.

Its not censorship, its for your personal safety as a free person in the world.

Dont be so selfish by trying to debate semantics with the Mods.

Just say "Thank you O great ones, your decision is wise."

And get back to spanking!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrtwister

Its not censorship, its for your personal safety as a free person in the world.

Dont be so selfish by trying to debate semantics with the Mods.

Just say "Thank you O great ones, your decision is wise."

And get back to spanking!

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I agree with not debating "semantics" I disagree with "Thank you O great ones"

I agree with getting back to "spanking"

The Shape

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac23

...it is censorship. That's part of what moderators have to do. It is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Well, censorship based on the rules! We try to keep everything free flowing and fair. What I mainly meant was, and was hinting at, is we're not going to censor you for being different and having a different outlook so long as it conforms to the site rules.

I don't think any of the Moderators here chose and voted for this decision expecting for it to be taken lightly. We're honestly sorry for the few people out there using this as a legit healthy fetish. But, it's impossible to know for sure who those users are.

Well Mac, at least you still have your yahoo group. Even though you can't post pics of dolls here anymore, there is still a whole lot of great stuff on the forum. I wouldn't say censorship, just being responsible.

I read your earlier posts asking where it can be proved that this sort of thing leads to pedophilia. Well the fact of the matter is that someone posted pics that were way over the line. I am sure you saw the explanation earlier in the thread. I am not accusing anyone of anything here, but this type of content can, and did in this case lead to exactly that. That is not my opinion, that is a fact, and that is why this type of subject matter is no longer allowed.

This can be broken down and argued to the smallest detail until we are all long gone, but I hope that isn't neccessary.

I hope you can find other things on the forum that interest you and you continue to be a member here.

Shape

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac23

Those Barbies were designed for adults. I live in an exceptionally conservative part of the world. Many stores pulled those dolls for being lewd. Don't for a moment try to convince me that the manufacturer did not know that these were aimed at older teens and adults. These were no 'dress up' your 12 year old daughter dolls.
My point is that you now have drawn that line. If you feel that strongly you have to do what you think is right. I pulled my stuff off of another sight because I saw the same disturbing images. I do not want to be associated with pedophilia. By the way sex with teenagers is not pedophilia.
I do agree with the other posts that challenge your sweeping all doll images off of the forum. Big deal - so I disagree! Probably won't be the last time.;)
I make most of my dolls myself. I also collect. You are wrong to assume that fashion dolls, including Barbies, are mearly childrens toys. Many more than you realize are designed with adults in mind. it is a huge industry globally. The bratz dolls are an unmistakeable example of this. Do you really think slutty dolls are aimed at 12 year old girls? If so....:confused: I hope, in time you will relax your stance on this. Besides - what is hotter than a miniature woman?!!! LOL
My last point is simply this. You have pictures of girls on here that could be 13 or 25. You choose not to moderate those. Why?:D
I won't waste anyone elses' time about this. I like this forum. Moderators you guys are good folks. You have a job to do. Thanks for doing it. Next year, after I am perfect, I'll expect you to be!;)

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If the Barbies in question were designed for adults it would make little sense to pull them. However, I appreciate your opinion and hope that every user can gain a little insight into the issue. If you'll notice, I did say that the Dolls can be used as collectibles by adults, but that's not their primary role in our society. I do realize that pedophilia is the attraction to pre-pubescent children. Qualities in which a doll does not exhibit, though most dolls resemble the physical structure and likeness of a young child, regardless of attire. It's for that reason and the pushing of what is deemed acceptable that it's best to do away with it altogether.

As another user pointed out, this makes a perfect subject to argue semantics. I cannot tell you in so many ways exactly how this can lead to illicit behavior, but that it does have the potential to, which is too great of a risk for the forum to take.

3 last points on this from me.

1: It doesn't matter what demographic you think these dolls are aimed at, they are for the most part bought for and represent people under 18, actually much under 18.

2: If you see pictures of someone who you think to be under 18 years of age on this site, please give the link so it can be dealt with ("13-25") is what you said was here so please let us know of the ones you think are under 18. I think the mods do a great job keeping an eye on that so please let me know what was missed.

3: We will not be perfect next year, and neither will you, we will just do the best that we can.

BTW, almost forgot, sex with teens might not be considered the "P" word by some, but it is illeagal in alot of places including where I am from.

The Shape

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonKemp

I just love you cognito me old mucker!

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Coolness! :cool:

Thank you, Highest One!

R/
cognito

jesus, why are we argueing if a barbie doll was aimed at children or not, shit look at the page they are on its all pink and star'y if thats not aimed at early teens then i dont know what is.

the truth of it is, that this is Facial Forum not Doll forum or spanking or fakers or anything else forum.

we reserve the right especially in the free section to remove any content for whatever reason we feel fit, the fact that our mods are trying to answer any Q's about the descision is over and above what they need to do, it was the admins descision to remove this content.

WE WILL NOT COMPROMISE OUR GREAT COMMUNITY FOR THE FETISH OF A VERY SMALL MINORITY.

Heres a quote from the link Mac posted:
"
Her black portfolio includes a mix-'n-match booklet to help you create all-new looks with her extra outfit and accessories. And don't forget to design a stylin' new 'do! (Ages 6+)
"
Do any of you notice the (ages 6+), please do not tell me they were designed for adults. my 7 year old daughter wants one.

END OF CONVERSATION

FA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valenuk1

Right peeps, lets put this whole discussion into perspective.

The catalyst for the recent decision was a post that was made in the free section (which has since been removed) of some guy cuming over a child's doll. You know the ones...the 'life-like' sized dolls which cry if not picked up and their eyes shut when laid down.....

Because of their very close resemblence to ACTUAL children, in both size & context etc, we felt that that kind of post was totally inappropriate & not welcome here at all.

The same therefore has to apply total to ALL & ANY posts which portray 'cum on' commercial products that are desgined, manufactured & sold solely for the use of children. We can not be caught cold footed so to speak on this issues, hence why this decision has been taken, which we fully appreciate will not be liked by all.

We all have the right to question & debate what happens here, hell it one of the most important things that we do, as a community of like minded fiends.

There are some issues however that we have to take a stand on. Please therefore consider this to be one of those issues.

Respects peeps....:cool:

Valenuk1
Senior Moderator

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This post should make it clear to everybody and it should be enough said in my view.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by casvdry

I hate to seem confusing, but what the rule applies to is a doll/toy which was marketed, produced and aimed towards children, not adults. Those figurines feature nudity as well as being geared for an older audience. I do not believe they fall under the rule.

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I glanced so briefly at those pics I never even noticed. The whole thing seems sick to me. What kind of perv adult is buying "adult" dolls? Then again, what kind of perv adult likes facials? Heh, heh, heh! :D

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Originally Posted by Mac23

...that 6 and 7 year olds are being 'sold' on sexy/slutty 'innocent' dolls!;)

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Eh, many childrens toys are like that!

FA, no worries man. I am not arguing with anyone. I find it interesting to see what other people think of the whole fetish honestly. Now, if Mac23 was coming across as some cocky nitwit who knew it all and was tirelessly questioning the decision, I would have banned em long ago ;)

ok, no arguement, but posting a link for justification when the information clearly states the intended agegroup, is just daft, we do not need this conversation on ff, its completely of subject, and it needs to end here.

FA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by facialadmin

ok, no arguement, but posting a link for justification when the information clearly states the intended agegroup, is just daft, we do not need this conversation on ff, its completely of subject, and it needs to end here.

FA

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Fine by me! I was considering closing it shortly after posting it. But, well.. I can't. :)

mac give it a rest dude, the subject is closed, since you seem to be the only one talking about it

FA

Let's put the consentual "facial" back in our Forum?
This doll topic is enough to get passive Platinum members like me to ask our members: How embarassed or shamed would you feel if your G/F, wife, or even Boss discovered your facial fetish? You'd most likely defend your desire, pointing to the new emergence of proud boyfriends and husbands who utilize their new digital cameras and video camera in this consentual manner.

Now ponder this twist on the same question: What if your FF.net URL was still in the cache and they curiously navigated to the "cum on dolls" and even "piss in mouth" threads. I'll be the first (hopefully of many) to admit that my pride and dignity in true consentual facials begins to diminish with dolls and urine. I am but the silent majority of passive platinum members would now speak out to applaud the decision to refer the doll fetish group to a forum designed for them.

Peeps..think weve all had the opportunity to put the world to right here, so i think its time to close the thread.

Valenuk1